[Server-sky] [ExI] Power sats again

[Michael Turner]

"On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Charles Radley <cfrjlr at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/16/2013 12:33 AM, Michael Turner wrote:
>>> [....]  Here in the Pacific Northwest, power produced at
>>> times of low demand (say 2200 to 0600) can have negative value;
>>> the Bonneville Power Administration pays money to dispose of wind
>>> power produced at these times in resistors in the desert, to avoid
>>> spilling water over the dams and supernitrogenating the water,
>>> damaging the salmon.
>> Somebody should go out to that point in the desert and sneak in a more
>> valuable resistive load: obsolete Bitcoin mining rigs. ;-)
>
> I expect BPA would be happy to sell the power to you, but  can you
> figure out a way of making a profit at i?.  Keep in mind that there are
> only a few days per year when the cost of power goes negative ...so most
> of the time your desert Bitcoin plant will be sitting idle, it would be
> difficult to finance such a venture.

I wrote "/obsolete/ Bitcoin mining rigs", don't forget. In other
words, computer junk that someone would probably pay you to haul away.
The ROI on Bitcoin mining is very much a function of the capital
investment required; some rigs never pay for themselves. If instead
the money is paid to you, you are facing little more than
transportation and setup costs.

Anyway, it always ruins a joke to explain it.

Regards,
Michael Turner

Project Persephone
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Tel: +81 (3) 6890-1140
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turner at projectpersephone.org
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"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Charles Radley <cfrjlr at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/16/2013 12:33 AM, Michael Turner wrote:
>>> [....]  Here in the Pacific Northwest, power produced at
>>> times of low demand (say 2200 to 0600) can have negative value;
>>> the Bonneville Power Administration pays money to dispose of wind
>>> power produced at these times in resistors in the desert, to avoid
>>> spilling water over the dams and supernitrogenating the water,
>>> damaging the salmon.
>> Somebody should go out to that point in the desert and sneak in a more
>> valuable resistive load: obsolete Bitcoin mining rigs. ;-)
>
> I expect BPA would be happy to sell the power to you, but  can you
> figure out a way of making a profit at i?.  Keep in mind that there are
> only a few days per year when the cost of power goes negative ...so most
> of the time your desert Bitcoin plant will be sitting idle, it would be
> difficult to finance such a venture.
>
>> News to me: if I'm interpreting this correctly, it makes financial
>> sense to keep the blades turning and the generators engaged than to
>> simply stop the wind turbines, at times when hydro is the cheaper
>> source. I'm dumbfounded. Is this grounded in mechanical engineering,
>> subsidy policy, or perhaps a combination of the two? Maybe off-topic,
>> but perhaps not irrelevant to SSP reception.
>
> Michael, this was the result of a huge lawsuit, BPA fought it at FERC
> and lost.
>
> The issue was that the capital investors who paid for the investment in
> the wind turbines insisted that BPA buy  100% of the power from the wind
> turbines, this was the only way that the business plan for the wind
> turbines could make a profit.
>
> BPA argued that this was unreasonable,  however, in 2011 the FERC ruled
> against BPA and forced them to buy all the wind power even when there
> was not enough demand for it.   BPA wanted the right to turn off the
> wind turbines, but FERC ruled that BPA does not have the right to do that.
>
> In effect, the wind power investors were able to force BPA to subsidize
> their investment.
>
> That is the situation we are left in today.
>
> Here is some background info:
>
> http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/12/wind-wins-ferc-rules-bpa-curtailment-of-wind-power-discriminatory
>
> Here is the BPA web site with all the history....
>
> http://www.bpa.gov/Projects/Initiatives/Oversupply/Pages/default.aspx
>
> Here is a copy of the complaint the wind energy generators filed against
> BPA:
>
> http://www.bpa.gov/Projects/Initiatives/Oversupply/OversupplyDocuments/OtherDocs/2011-06-13_ComplaintAgainstBPA.pdf
>
> Here is BPA's response to the complaint:
>
> http://www.bpa.gov/Projects/Initiatives/Oversupply/OversupplyDocuments/OtherDocs/EL11-44_BPA_Answer_07-19-2011.pdf
>
> Here is the order by FERC upholding the complaint against BPA:
>
> http://www.bpa.gov/Projects/Initiatives/Oversupply/OversupplyDocuments/OtherDocs/FERC-order-Dec7.pdf
>
> --
>
> Charles F Radley
> USA Telephone:  +1-503-922-1012 (Vonage)
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>
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